Thursday, July 16, 2009

Taking The Birth Control Pill Prior to IVF: Does it Compromise outcome?

It is often stated that it is not a good idea to take birth control pills (BCP) before starting controlled ovarian hyperstimulation (COH) for IVF, the reason being that it will suppress follicle development, prolong the cycle of stimulation and compromise egg/embryo quality. This is not accurate because it is only half of the story.

It is a fact that if a woman goes directly from a BCP to COH, without overlapping the last few days on the pill with a GnRH agonist (GnRHa) such as Lupron, Nafarelin, or Buserelin, the stimulation will very often be compromised. However, this is NOT the case if GnRHa is given for the last 4-6 days on the BCP prior to commencing ovarian stimulation with gonadotropins….and here is why:

Towards the end of a natural ovulatory cycle, starting a few days prior to menstruation, the corpus luteum (the structure that produces estrogen and progesterone after ovulation) starts to fail. This is associated with a rise in blood levels of follicle stimulating hormone (FSH) which in turn triggers the final process of egg recruitment and development of antral follicles, in preparation for use in the upcoming cycle. Without such FSH triggering, egg and follicle preparation is more likely to be compromised.

Administration of a birth control pill (BCP) suppresses FSH release by the pituitary gland, blocks ovulation and thus prevents formation of the corpus luteum. Accordingly, when a woman is on BCP and immediately begins COH with gonadotropins upon menstruation following discontinuation of the pill, she would be initiating ovarian stimulation without having completed egg recruitment and antral follicle development. As a result, follicular response to COH will usually be delayed and blunted. In the process, follicle and egg development is often compromised and the length of the ovarian stimulation cycle is prolonged significantly. Perhaps now it will be appreciated why starting ovarian stimulation coming directly off the BCP is less than ideal.

In my view, it is not only acceptable, but even ideal to take the BCP for at least one cycle prior to starting COH in preparation for IVF. Doing so allows one (without prejudice) to better plan and time cycles of IVF. Furthermore, since the BCP also suppressed LH, it is often especially advantageous in older women, in women with diminished ovarian reserve and in those with PCOS (in whom high LH levels can compromise egg/embryo quality). However, when women undergoing IVF launch their treatment cycles with a BCP, it is imperative to overlap the BCP with GnRHa for several days prior to menstruation and initiation of COH. The reason for this is that preceding GnRHa administration, the pituitary gland expunges FSH, which upon reaching the ovaries, serves to prepare eggs and antral follicles for the upcoming ovarian stimulation with gonadotropins. Simply stated, the combined use of BCP/GnRHa prepares the ovary for COH by supplanting the natural stimulus for FSH release that would otherwise occur with a failing corpus luteum.

The message is that the use of a BCP to set up a cycle of IVF should always include overlapping with a GnRHa for a few days before the stimulation begins. If this is done the BCP will NOT suppress or compromise response to COH.

137 comments:

  1. Can you clarify"... preceding GnRHa administration, the pituitary gland expunges FSH.." Do you mean following GnRHa or if not, what triggers the FSH production? Is it necessary to take Lupron WHILE on BCPs or is it sufficent to take it a few days before menstruation? I just came off a poor response where I took BCP 19 days, micro-dose lupron 3 days, then COH. Many thanks
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  2. The pituitary gland increases its output of FSH as the corpus luteum starts to fail(about 5 days prior to menstruation). As this happens there is a concommitant drop in progesterone. The falling progeasterone with rising FSH triggers the final stage of egg recruitment and antral follicle development.

    The use of an agonist such as Lupron overlapping with the BCP expunges LH from the pituitary gland and this increases the blood FSH and triggers the same antral follicle recruitment process. It does not matter whether the Lupron is started in a natural cycle (6 days or so prior to anticipated spentaneous menstruation) or while on a BCP.

    Geoff Sher
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  3. I (age 40) have decided to try IVF after 6 failed IUIs (1 m/c, 1 ectopic). I have elevated estrogen and cysts from the last cycle so my RE put me on birth control. The nurse who met with us yesterday indicated that b/c of the cysts and the RE on vacation, I would be taking BCP until 8/8 then take 5 days off BCP and then start stimming with Repronex. I will also be using Gonal F and Cetrotide at some point. Does it sound like this protocol will be successful? Should I push for a complete month of BCP and then start off fresh next month?

    Thanks, Dena
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  4. I would push for at least 15 days on the BCP and then overlap the BCP with a GnRH agonist such as Lupron for 2 days. At that point I would stop the BCP while continueing the daily Lupron. Soon after menstrual period starts (usually 4-6 days after stopping the BCP) I would initiate daily injections of an FSH dominant gonadotropin like Folistim and would add 37.5U of LHr (Luveris)to the mix starting on day 3 of Folistim. Both Folistim and Luveris + Lupron (or suplant Lupron with 125mcg of a GnRH antagonist such as Ganirelix) by daily injections would be continued until at least 2 follicles reach 18mm-22mm in mean diameter and 50% of all follicles are at least 15mm. Then I would give 10,000U hCG and perform ER 36 hours later.

    Geoff Sher



    Geoff Sher
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  5. I (age 38; FSH of 11; and male factor)used BCPs before both of my failed IVF cycles. I stopped the BCP, got my period a few days later and then started 300 gonal-f and 300 menopur daily. Ganirelix was added on day 4 of these high dose stims. No lupron was ever used. Would you have recommended the use of lupron or some similar drug during the last few days of the BCPs? Thanks.
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  6. Indeed! For the very reasons mentioned in this blog and in others on this site , I would not start stimulation coming off a BCP without overlapping with a GnRHa such as Lupron and would not have given as much mmenotropin (Menopur) because of its high LH/hCG content.

    Good luck!

    Geoff Sher
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  7. Thank you for this detailed information. I had a cancelled IVF cycle this past month due to poor stim response (1 good follicle only). Was on BCP for 14 days then nothing for 5 days prior to starting stims (250 folliston, 150 menopur). I am 39 and there are very small signs of deliminishing reseve, but our real issue is male factor, and i got 4 good follicles just from a clomid cycle. Clearly you would recommend the GnRH between BCP and stims. I have always had a very negative response to BCP in the past (constant bleeding, feeling ill, etc) and so my question is: is it necessary for me to even do the 14 days fo BCP prior to starting my next cycle of stims? If my levels are looking good after my next period, could we not just go right to stims? Many thanks!
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  8. Indeed you can start taking the GnRHa (e.g. Lupron) about 1 week before spontaneous menses. It will work just as well as overlapping with a BCP.

    Geoff cSher
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  10. In my most recent IVF cycle, in preparation for doing PGD, my FS put me on the BCP for 3 weeks, and then 7 days overlapping with Lucrin. After I got my period, we started gonal f as normal - on the highest dose I've ever been on.

    I had the worst response ever! This is my 8th IVF cycle and whereas I normally get between 8-14 eggs, this time I had 5 of which only 2 were able to be fertilised. As a result we did not do PGD

    My belief is that it was the use of the BCP that caused the poor response, as it was the only thing we had done differently. Could this be the case?
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  11. In my opinion, the BCP will not be the cause of a blunted response.

    Each cycle differs. I have a woman in-cycle this very month on the same protocol I had her on 4 months ago when she produced 15 follicles. This time she produced 8.

    Another issue can be the dosage and type of gonadotropins used. I believe that it should be FSHr dominant rather than menotropins (FSH 50%+LH50%combination. Too much LH can blunt response.

    I would be happy to discuss this with you. Simply go to www,haveababy.com and from the home page set up a free medical telephone consultation.

    Geoff Sher
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  12. I have had multiple IVF failure(microdose lupron and antagonist protocols resp). I am < 35, have excellent AFC and produce 20+ eggs.My day 3 FSH is normal. i do have endo.we also have slight MFI. however each cycle I was on BCP for 21 days right before starting stims. And then i always took 2 weeks to stim. I would get 20+ eggs all icsi and the embryo quality would deteoriate by day 5 eventually leaving none frozen and a failed cycle. Do you think 3 weeks of bcp without any overlap with Gnrh could be the root cause my problem?
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  13. As indicated in this article, it is not ideal to go directly from the BCP to a stim without overlapping with an agonist. The reasons are those cited above. However, this does not mean that it is not possaible to get good embryos even if you deviate from the rule. In your case it sounds as if you did get good embryos. So...now you need to look elsewhere and most specifically at implantation. Factors such as the thickness of your lining at hCG, the regularity of the uterine cavity by sonohysterogram or hysteroscopy and perhaps most important of all, whether you have an immunologic implantation dysfunction must be investigated thoroughly before you try again.

    Since you have endometriosis and 1/3 of wome who have this condition also have activated uterine natural killer cells (see my articles on endometriosis and on immunolic implantation dysfunctio elsewhere on this site)the latter could lie at the heart of your IVF failure.

    If you wish to communicate with me one on one (by phone), go to the home page of the SIRM website (www.haveababy.com) and set up a free medical telephone consultation.

    Geoff Sher
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  14. I may have mistyped earlier. But I have bad embryo quality. severe deterioration after day 3 leaving zero frozen.this has been attributed to poor egg/sperm quality too.
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  15. is this overlap also applicable in cases where bcps are taken before antagonist protocol is started?
    or is this only applicable before lupron based (long lupron and MDL)COH
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  16. Yes! The reason being that no one should go directly from BCP's to a cycle of stim without the agonist (Lupron) overlapping in the last few days of the oral contraceptive. Otherwise they will not recruit follicles properly.

    Geoff Sher
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  17. what about when Depot Lupron (for endo/beta integrin) before an IVF cycle. Do you recommend BCP + overlap of lupron and an antagonist cycle or should one go straight from Depot Lupron to an Antagonist without using BCP ?
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  18. Hi, I have just had a cycle of IVF (antagonist protocol) that commenced with 23 days on BCP and on day 2 of my menstrual cycle I started 450 Gonal-F. After 5 days this was raised to 600 Gonal-F. Only 2 follicles had responded so my cycle was canceled. This is the first cycle that I have had using the BCP and my antral follicles were very low with only 2 one side and 3 the other. My last IVF cycle I produced 8 eggs on 600 Gonal-F without going on the BCP. I am concerned that the BCP may not work for me but my clinic insist on using it. Can you tell me what dose of Lupron you would recommend and how long I should take it for and do you think I would be better to try and convince my clinic not to use BCP?

    My clinic also have a long waiting list and have said to go on the pill in case they get a cancellation one month. This could mean being on the pill for a few months before treatment starts (with a break and period each month). Is this a good idea or could it affect the outcome of my treatment?
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  19. If you are on depot Lupron it will also knock out the recruitment process. I know many would not agree with me, but I would reccomend starting the BCP after the effectrs of the depot Lupron ware off and you get a menstrual period, then go on to a BCP and overlap with Lupron for the treatment cycle.

    Geoff Sher
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  20. Respectfully, I do not agree with going on to any stim cycle coming directly a BCP without first overlapping with an agonist(e.g. Lupron). What happened to you is not unexpected as far as I am concerned. It was not using the pill that caused the problem It was likely the fact that you had not overlapped with lupron to cause a pre-cycle rise in FSH that would optimize recruitment.

    Geoff Sher
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  21. My doctor is having me double up on the bcp for one week because I started it on day seven of my cycle and he is trying to manipulate my cycle to be ready during his up time. Does this sound OK? I basically called in during day 7 and that day I began taking two bcp per day. Starting tomorrow, I am tapering to one in hopes that I will begin day 1 of my cycle on time to get started this month. What are your thoughts about this?
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  22. I don't think it will do harm but either way, in my opinion, if a cycle ios launched from the BCP, it is best to first overlap with an agonist (e.g. Lupron). See the article above.

    Geoff Sher
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  23. This is a timely article for me. My first IVF attempt was converted to IUI due to poor response (only 2 follicles recruited, despite an AFC of 11). My new protocol will involve 7 days of Ganirelix (luteal), followed by microdose lupron for 7 days (starting stims on day 3), then restarting Ganirelix. This is very similar to my last cycle, although the last one used BCP in place of luteal Ganirelix (and last time I used microdose lupron throughout the whole cycle, until HCG trigger). I'm concerned that I will be oversuppressed again and would appreciate your insight.
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  24. Ganirelix is an "antagonist" will NOT cause a premenstrual FSH "surge" and thus the final recruitment process to antral follivcles might be suppressed. This cannot in my opinion supplant the use of an "agonist" such as lupron. The agonist does cause the required "surge" in FSH.

    Geoff Sher
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  25. Ooops!! I made an error in the last sentence oif my previous response. It should read "This cannot in my opinion supplant the use of an "agonist" such as lupron. The ANTAGONIST does cause the required "surge" in FSH.
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  26. Thanks. Is that likely why my doctor is starting microdose lupron following ganirelix, in order to create that FSH surge?
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  27. Remember, Ganirelix is an antagonist (not an agonist like Lupron). Thus it will immediately upon being given, BLOCK pituitary FSH release in the pre-mentrual phase. In contrast Lupron (an agonist) expunges the gonadotropins (FSH and LH) from the pituitary gland causing an FSH/LH a "surge".... Ganirelix will not! Thus in my opinion, giving Ganirelix pre-menstrually to recruit follicles for the upcoming cycle will in fact do the reverse.

    Please know that I am only giving my opinion, and am not suggesting that you go against your RE's advice.

    Sorry!

    Geoff Sher
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  28. I appreciate your perspective. Just trying to gather as much info as I can before my upcoming consult! Thanks.
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  29. I am 36 with signs of poor ovarian reserve. I will be starting my first IVF cycle and am confused regarding all the different protocols.

    What protocol would you choose for a first cycle? (could you be specific)

    Thanks.
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  30. An agonist/antagonist conversion protocol (see the relevant blog elsewhere). Without much more informnation I cannot advise on the exact dosage.

    Geoff Sher
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  31. First of all thank you so much for being so open with your advice! This site has been a godsend.
    I am 35, thin with PCOS. The only symptoms of PCOS that I have experienced are irregular periods and annovulation - no weight problems, no hirsutism. Day 2 LH=5.
    I had my first IVF cycle in March. This was a long protocol (buserelin / gonal F dose of 112.5). I over-responded with >20 follicles on each side and would have been at severe risk of OHSS had the IVF been successful (result was only 2 decent quality embryos, but no pregnancy).

    So for this second IVF cycle I have been prescribed an antagonist protocol (BCP / Gonal F / Cetrotide), to reduce OHSS risk. I have also been on metformin since June.

    From having read your posts, I take it you'd prescribe a different protocol in my case?? Or would you simply supplement with say Buserelin for a few days overlapping with BCP?

    Catherine
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  32. In your case given that you are a high responder (probably PCOS) and were at high risk of developing severe ovarian hyperstimulation syndrome (OHSS) your RE, in an attempt to reduce your risk, might have trigerred you with hCG before the follicles/eggs were quite ready to undergo meiosis resulting in them being much more likely to be chromosomally irregular (aneuploid) and thus "incompetent". This would explain your low yield of good embryos.

    The important thing for you to know is that this was NOT likely the consequence of your having an inherrent egg quality deficit. Again it is likely all about the protocol of stimulation and the timing of the hCG trigger...in my opinion. You probably would have benefitted from timely "prolonged coasting" (see the blogs on PCOS and also on Ovarian hyperstimulation elsewhere on this site).

    Good luck!

    Geoff Sher
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  33. Thank you - that's reassuring!

    Specifically what I'd like to know is your thoughts on the protocol I've been prescribed for the NEXT round: (antagonist protocol: BCP / Gonal F / Cetrotide). I was wondering whether based on your post you'd throw some buserelin into the mix for the last few days of the BCP. Does "prolonged coasting" even apply as an option in the antagonist protocol?

    Or are you saying you'd scrap the antagonist protocol altogether and instead use the same protocol as last time (buserelin / Gonal F) but with "prolonged coasting" this time.

    Thanks!!
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  34. I personally would not use the antagonist protocol but that is between you and your RE. I personally also believe that for reasons of facilitating optimal recruitment, it is not ideal to go directly from the BCP to gonadotropin stimulation without first overlapping with agonist.

    Geoff Sher
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  35. I just delivered my first baby 3 months ago after getting pregnant through IVF. I am 27 yrs old and in great health. I want to start another IVF cycle asap. I just got my period and asked for birth control pills from my OB. Do you advise that I take the birth control before starting a controlled IVF cycle with the birth control, menapure, and folistim or do you advise that i stay off the pill and let my body run its course before starting an IVF cycle?
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  36. I do recommend launching an IVF cycle off the BCP, but not until you have had at least 2 full spontaneous cycles after stopping breast feeding.

    Geoff sher
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  37. I have had 2 periods of my own after delivering my daughter. I just started the pill after this last period. I meet with the fertility doctor this Friday.... so just for the record you are saying that being on BCP is a good thing for me right now? I can go from this month of pills get my period and start on the IVF cycle, correct?
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  38. In my opinion....yes, unless your RE wants to get an FSH/E2 baseline measurement on the 3rd day of a natural cycle.

    Geoff Sher
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  39. Dr. Sher,
    Would you also recommend BCP along with your Estrogen Priming Protocol for a woman with DOR?
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  40. Indeed I would and usually in such cases recommend the BCP mfor more than 1 lead in cycle.

    Geoff Sher
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  41. I am new to IVF and am trying to make it into an "October" cycle at my clinic. My clinic only performs COH four times a year. The last day for the "October" cycle is Nov. 5th. Here's my issue. If my menstrual cycle stays on course, I will only have been on BCP for 14 days on Nov. 5th. Assuming that they overlap with a GnRHa (Lupron), will this work?
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  42. I have a long question for you as well.
    I have PCOS, I don't know how high my LH would be in a natural cycle because I never had a cycle without BCP. I had an antagonist protocol for our first ICSI BCP for 28 days. After my period I started with 150 GonalF on the 6th day and after 6 days of stimulation got Cetrotide. I had the egg retrival shortly after bc even though I took the Cetrotide I had 3 too big follicles all the sudden and the rest was still small. At first I was scared that the 3 eggs would be over mature and the rest still not well enough. I produced 22 eggs, 18 were used for ICSI and 13 fertilized. I thought this was a good rate. I don't know how all of them would have developed bc it is not allowed in my country to cultivate all. I had a blastocyst transfer on day 5 resulting in a pos HCG but it was too low.
    Do you think I should do an ultra long protocol instead next time even though we had a blasto under these not so ideal circumstances? My RE wants to do the antagonist again bc she said with being downregulated I would probably produce too much eggs that start growing even with low stimulation needing more stimulation to make all the eggs ripe bc all would respond and then go into an OHSS. I think partly she must be right bc I had 22 egs after 6 days of stimulation coming straight of the BCP.
    Could I do your antagonist protocol starting with the cetrotide on the same day as stimulation? I am scared of the neg LH effect that I will definitely have with my PCOS. I also mus say my RE's didn't expect so much follicles they said my ovaries are so big bc of the PCOS so it is impossible to tell the right amount of follicles.
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  43. Hi there,

    I'm 36 and undergoing in order to have my eggs frozen. My Day 3s were: FSH 8.0, Estradiol: 82, LH:5, AMH 5.5. My progesterone on the 21st day of my previus cycle was 17.2nml. My 1st ultrasound showed 7 follicles total, and ovary volume around 28 x ?.

    My RE put me 14days of BCP, after which I had another ultrasound which showed 7 follicles total (5 at 4-5mm, 2 at 2-3mm). After reviewing the results of my second scan, my RE had me stop taking BCP altogether and start Synarel (2 sprays in the morning, 2 in the evening) for 7 days. After this I will begin 14days of 300ml Puregon injections, and reduce the Synarel to 1 in the morning & 1 in the eve. The 300ml dose- represents an increase from what the RE originally thought I'd need.

    This is my first time using IVF meds- is this protocol the best for my situation? Is is okay that there was no overlap between the BCP and the Synarel? Does the fact that I still had only 7 follicles at the second scan, mean the most eggs I can hope for at retrieval is also 7? I have heard that antral folicle count (taken together with one's age) is a relatively accurate predictor of IVF success/failure.

    Thanks in advance for your reply.
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  44. Yes ! it is OK, provided you waited for a menstrual perion while on Synarel, before launching inbto the stimulation with fertility drugas and that you continued taking the Synarel till the hCG trigger.

    By the way...I strongly suggest that you access my blog on this site, regarding "Egg Banking". "Egg Freezing", and the definite advantage of selectively freezing only chromosomally normal eggs.

    Geoff Sher
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  45. This comment has been removed by the author.
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  46. I just turned 44 and have had one child naturally 6 years ago, 3 miscarraiges in the last 3 years, and one failed IVF this year (9 eggs, 7 fertilized, 6 transferred on day 3, chemical pregnancy).

    I am now at a clinic that has more success with women my age. For my upcoming IVF, I will be on BCP for 2 weeks. Then, they have me go off BCP for 3 days while expecting menses. Then I start Lupron and stay on Lupron for 2 days. On the 3rd day of Lupron, they add the stims: Repronex, Follistim and Growth Hormone (GH).

    From what I understand, the GH is supposed to increase egg quality. But, do you know if the GH does any follicular recruitment? Could this be why they are not having me overlap BCP with Lupron?
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  47. I am not impressed with the use of GH. The original work was done in Hammersmith Hospital, UK. Results were not great. We did a trial in the mid-90's...again no benefit shown.Recent reports in the literature remain dissapointing.

    The regime you are on for stim, while appropriate does not seem to be very aggressive. While it is possible that you are a high responder and will need a stronger stim, at 44Y this is not vlikely.

    Good luck!

    Geoff Sher
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  48. Hi there,

    I had a failed cycle earlier this month. Normally my antral follicle count is 12-14, but this month it was only 10 - potentially due to going from BCP to ganirelix to stims (as you caution against above).

    I nursed my son (part time) up until about 3 weeks before stims. I was very very suppressed by breastfeeding. I did not go back to cycling naturally, and my RE was unable to get me to bleed from progesterone withdrawal or BCPs before I stopped nursing completely. I started to bleed a day or two before I was expected to (prior to stims) and it was very light.

    Now I have to decide when to try again. The fastest thing to do would be to go on bcps in Feb and try again in March. But I'd also have to give up a professional trip to Hawaii. It's a really tough decision. I'm about to turn 38 and have previously been diagnosed with DOR, so I don't have a lot of time to lose...

    I would almost like to see what my body does on its own for a month before messing with it again. Do you think there's any benefit to that, or is it best to not waste any time? I'm really looking for something to base the decision on. What do you recommend?

    Thanks so much!
    Hopeful Mom
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  49. P.S. What happens to the antral follicles that were present the month before, if you're on the pill and don't ovulate?

    Say, if we count my antral follicles in the beginning of Feb., and then after a month of BCP (and possibly a day or two of lupron) count them again at the beginning of March, will we be counting the same antral follicles? If not, where do the Feb. follicles go, and how does one's body know to get rid of them?
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  50. The AF's absorb if not vused.

    Geoff Sher
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  51. I don't think a month or two of waiting will do harm.

    Geoff Sher
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  52. Hi There. My donor is 23 and has an antral follicle count of 9, a day 3 FSH of 1.51 and E2 under 20. It was determined her LH was low also. She has been on birth control pills for years. Do you think we should pass on her?
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  53. One other note....My RE ordered an AMH for a better picture our donor's ovarian reserve since it's results are not impacted by the birth control pills. She is also going off the pill this month. Should we re-do the FSH/E2/LH during her next period or should we move forward with our IVF cycle if her AMH results are good? Our RE thinks the bcps are suppressing her. Do you think her antral follicle count will improve being off the pill? Will it then be reduced again when she is back on the pill to sync our cycles? What protocol do you think is best for her? If her antral follicle count is only 9, but her AMH is good, will she produce more than 9 eggs? Sorry so many questions :)
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  54. The BCP will not affect the AFC. Respectfully...used with an overlap of "agonist" such as Lupron the BCP will not suppress response in my opinion (see article above.

    Geoff Sher
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  55. Hi there,

    In reading this article, it suggests that there is a benefit from overlapping bcp with Lupron...can you please help explain why that is the case (having a little trouble understandig why exactly...for ex, my RE has me taking bcp for 36 days and on my "last day" of bcp (day 36) is my 1st day of Lupron...meaning that I would only be on bcp for "one day" while on Lupron...is that OK to do...and why would an RE suggest that? everything I've read indicates you need to be on bcp for "at least" 5 days while on Lupron...am I comprimising anything by not doing that and only being on both meds for 1 day? Please help, really concerned.
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  56. You would need to ask your RE for the explanation. I am at a loss!

    Geoff Sher
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  57. Hello. I am 29 years old and am hypo hypo. I have done 3 IUIs, the first one was cancelled because of too many follicles and the next two, we had to aspirate, but still didn't get pregnant. So we decided to do IVF and it turns out that I only produced 5-6 follicles so the doctor suggested converting the IVF to an IUI (which idn't work). In the IUIs I was taking about 100 units of Follistim and for the IVF I was taking Lupron during the end of the BCP and part of the time with follistim (175 units). My RE thought that my lack of response was either due to the dosage of Follistim or to the Lupron so he put me back on BCP and starting the Follistim 2 days after the end of the BCP at 300 units and will have me start an antagon at 14 mm. However, I just had my labs done and my estrogen was low (63) so they increased my Follistim to the max, 450 units. Do you think my low response is due to the BCP before starting the IVF? When I was doing the IUIs I had too many follicles and didn't do BCP beforehand and now that I want all the follicles they aren't appearing. Also it appears that everything else with my system is fine except for my amenorhea. Is there any way to get my menses to recommence? Thanks so much!!
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  58. Hello, I have a question. I am starting the protocol that you recommend above this month (first BCP, then Lupron). I am 36, healthy with normal tests and previously gave birth naturally. However, my husband has male factor infertility and it borders on severe. We have done three IUI's but the sperm count was pretty bad and, not surprisingly, they didn't work. For the last two IUI's, I used clomid. Now I am on the BCP, preparing for the IVF. My question is: I went to an acupuncturist that claimed that IVF is unlikely to work because I wasn't 'taking a break' from the clomid and follicles need 85 days to mature. In your opinion, are my chances of success compromised because of the previous clomid use??
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  59. Your accupuncturist is wrong. You need only one free cycle off meds before trying again.

    The BCP is NOT the issue here.

    Feel free to call 800-780-7437 for a free telephone consultation with me if you so wish.

    Geoff Sher
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  60. Hi Becca,

    No the BCP is not the issue at all. You need an individualized (more customized aproach to stimulation in my opinion.

    Consider calling 800-780-7437 and setting up a free medical telephone consultation with me.

    Geoff Sher
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  61. Dr Sher

    Can I just clarify that it is acceptable not to take the BCP but to start Lupron a week before a natural period and launch the COH when the period arrives with the low dose antagonist? And do you know if taking Norethisterone before the period to delay it and then overlapping with Lupron would be a good or bad thing?

    Many many thanks for your time and expertise
    ReplyDelete
  62. hello,

    I'm 35 yrs old and need IVF w\icsi because of male infertility. My RE is going to start the process without BCP, is this normal or should I take BCP before the process and before taking Lupron?
    ReplyDelete
  63. Dear Becca,

    Yes! It is acceptable to either start the agonist (e.g. Lupron/Buserelin),5 days prior to the expected period OR to wait for the 1st or 2nd day of bleeding (without prior agonist) and then start taking low dose antagonist (e.g Cetrotide or Ganirelix) daily till the hCG trigger.

    And Yes! Taking norethisterone rather than the BCP and then overlapping with the agonist (e.g. Lupron) is also OK.

    Geoff Sher
    ReplyDelete
  64. Hi Becca,

    It is fine, as long as the Lupron is started 4-6 days priorr to expected menstruation and not (in my opinion) with the onset of menstruation (i.e. as a microflare arrangement).

    Geoff Sher
    ReplyDelete
  65. Dr Sher

    I have started norethisterone after ovulation (about 5 days) to delay my period to fit in with my clinic. This means that I already have a corpus luteum that I assume will degenerate and result in the associated FSH rise. Would it be better to still overlap the norethisterone with Lupron or just wait for my period after stopping the norethisterone and then begin the antagonist?

    Many many thanks for you advice
    ReplyDelete
  66. Dr Sher

    I have started norethisterone after ovulation (about 5 days) to delay my period to fit in with my clinic. This means that I already have a corpus luteum that I assume will degenerate and result in the associated FSH rise. Would it be better to still overlap the norethisterone with Lupron or just wait for my period after stopping the norethisterone and then begin the antagonist?

    Many many thanks for you advice
    ReplyDelete
  67. Problem is that the norethisterone will suppress FSH. Thus if it were up to me, I would favor overlapping the norethisterone with Lupron to induce the FSH rise.

    Geoff Sher
    ReplyDelete
  68. how about starting lupron on day 2 of the cycle flare up protocol after a cycle with BCP
    ReplyDelete
  69. another question sorry
    if i start antagonist on day 2 of the menses will it work with BCP commencing the cycle before?
    ReplyDelete
  70. It is not a good idea to start any stim coming off a BCP without prior overlapping with an agonist (e.g. Lupron) while on the BCP. This is needed to cause a premenstrual rise in FSH so as to properly recruit follicles .

    Geoff Sher
    ReplyDelete
  71. Dr. Sher

    I have been diagnosed with unexplained inf. about 4 years ago. I am 33 and my husband just turned 37.
    We've done 9 IUIs and 3 IVF ( all failed), never preg :( .. My first IVF I did BCP for a couple of days and then Follistin and Ganirelix. we got 12 eggs and only 2 were mature, both good quality.
    My 2nd IVF my RE wanted to try with BCP for 3 weeks then LUPRON, which we had to cancel on day 5 of Lupron cause I got a skin reaction.. (?) we go back to antagonist protocol with the same meds used on my previous IVF. We got 10 eggs, 7 were mature, only 3 fertilized and only 2 made it to day 3, with very poor quality.
    My 3rd IVF, again antagonist.. we replaced follistin with Gonal F and increased the dossage to 300 Units. We got 13 eggs, only 5 mature and none of them fertilize (with ICSI)..
    What would you suggest it may be my problem? Why am I getting so many inmature eggs at ER?
    I really appreciate all the information you provide in this site, thank you so very much!
    Mara
    ReplyDelete
  72. Hi Mara,

    Firstly, it is unlikely that you have an intractable egg issue. You are too young. However this could be a matter of radically adjusting your protocol of stimulation. Please read up elsewhere on this blog regarding "individualizing protocols of stimulation".

    Also, you need to be evaluated thoroughly for an implantation issue (lining or immune)

    Might I invite you to call 800-780=7437 and set up a free medical telephone consultation if you wish.

    Geoff Sher
    ReplyDelete
  73. Thank you for your answer Dr. Sher!
    ReplyDelete
  74. Hi Dr Sher,

    I'm 28, have PCOS and have had 5 monitored rounds of Clomid under the supervision of my ob/gyn. Of those 5 cycles, only 1 achieved dominant follicles (2 x 16mm @ 150mg clomid). All the others have just created dozens and dozens of 7-10mm follicles. Currently CD14 after clomid on days 2-6, with this cycle having just been cancelled due to poor follicle response and very very thin lining.

    I am scheduled in for my first IVF consultation at the end of next month and am trying to work out if I should start on BCP prior to the appointment. And if so, should I be ending this cycle with provera first before going on BCP or just start taking BCP straight away.

    I guess my key question is, will taking BCP at a point in my cycle where I have lots of immature follicles and am only a week off clomid be counterproductive?

    Thanks in advance!

    Kate
    ReplyDelete
  75. I am afraid I cannot answer your question. This depends very much on the preference of your RE and what protocol he has planned for you.

    Geoff Sher
    ReplyDelete
  76. Hello Dr Sher
    I'm 40 yr w tubal factor and have had two failed IVF cycles this year. The first one followed the lupron protocol w 2.5 cc a day (at 39 yrs old) taking BCP for two weeks overlapped with the lupron as you recommend (before the mense), followed by follistim for 300 UI twice a day while still on the Lupron at 5 cc daily dose. I was a slow responder so the follistim (w lupron) was prolonged. 18 eggs were retreived, and half of those went to icsi with 3 fertilized eggs, plus 2 from normal ivf, but by day 3 there were only 3 viable embryos for transfer. No pregnancy. My cycle was rated as poor egg quality and low fertilization rate. The second cycle was 3 months later (turning 40 yr) at another clinic and new doctor. I followed the antagonist protocol with no BCP. Stimulation began on day 2 of my period with 300 IU of Gonal-F at night and 150 of Menopur in the mornings for 10 days. On day 6 (or 7) i took the antagonist Ganirelix for 3 days. 13 eggs were retrieved, 6 went to icsi and 7 left to iv fertilization. Fertilization rate was 60% from each group (9 embryos total on 1st day). On day 3 there were 5 or 6 embryos remaining but only 3 were rated as viable embryos for transfer (one was excellent) and 2 were transferred following my wish. No pregnancy either. New doctor said that I did not have a low fertilization rate, that I needed the right protocol to maximize egg maturation, that's why the doc recommended the antagonist for me. I have a low BMI with history of anorexia at age 14. I am a healthy slim person now and not underweight. I have a beautiful 2 yrs old who was born from my first ivf cycle at age 37-38, where the (lupron) agonist protocol was followed and same results as in my second ivf: very low fertilization rate and poor egg quality.
    FHS on day 3 this year has ranged from 7 to 8.4 although 2 yrs ago it was 9.5. Have no signs of diminished ovarian reserve according to my new doc, although the previous one said that i did.
    Would you agree with my new doctor that the antagonist protocol is right for me, to optimize egg maturation and hence fertilization and in consequence increase the chances of pregnancy?
    I am starting another ivf cycle w the antagonist protocol, and wish to have a day 2 transfer and no icsi. On my first cycle (w successful pregnancy) had a day 2 transfer. I feel that transferring the embryos sooner to the uterus could increase the chances of embryo survival provided it has 23 chromosomes. Would you agree?
    Thanks
    ReplyDelete
  77. Hello Dr Sher,

    I am a poor responder with 3 failed IVFS. I produced 4 homogenous follicles on a long down-regulation agonist cycle, 7 follicles on an antagonist cycle without OCP (all of varying sizes from 23mm – 12mm), and 6 follicles on an antagonist cycle launched straight off OCP (again varying sizes from 25mm to 10mm). The theory was that launching off the OCP would recruit a more homogenous cohort of follicles, but it didn't.

    I have changed to a new RE that specializes in poor responders and she suggests I try a long microdose agonist protocol and wondered if you are familiar with this? It consists of OCP for 21 days, I will start daily injections of microdose agonist the day after stopping the OCP, and then after 7 further days I will commence FSH injections and continue the microdose agonist until egg collection.

    As I am unable to find references to this protocol on Google I was wondering what your thoughts were and if you might be able to explain the theory behind this it: Does starting microdose injections of agonist immediately following the pill cause the pituitary to be further suppressed? If this is the case, what are the advantages of this protocol – is it a lower level of suppression? Or does the long microdose protocol take advantage of the initial agonist effect of stimulating the pituitary to produce endogenous FSH, and if so, how long does it take for pituitary suppression?

    In your opinion will this protocol enable me to recruit a maximum amount of follicles, and will it enable me to recruit a more homogenous cohort of follicles?

    Thanks in advance!

    Linday
    ReplyDelete
  78. Dr Sher,

    I am a 36 year old with two successful pregnancies in my twenties. I had a tubal ligation eight years ago during laproscopy for endometriosis. I would now like to attempt IVF. I have been taking BCP with no break for the past year to prevent mestruation pain from the endometriosis and I also take 1500mg Metformin for PCOS. If I take the Lupron at the end of the BCP, will it matter that I have not had a cycle in so long? Or should I stop the pills to start a natural cycle? I am not sure how my system has been affected by the continuous BCP. My cycles were fairly regular but heavy prior to BCP. Also, since I had two prior normal pregnancies prior to the tubal, should I have better than average success with IVF?

    Thanks for your advice.
    ReplyDelete
  79. im 24 , and have pcos, this is my first round of ivf. i have been on bcp for a little over a month and i have spotted on bcp the whole time? is this normal they doubled me up on bcp and it is still doing it im am to start lupron 2 days prior to coming of bcp please help
    ReplyDelete
  80. Dear T,

    No need to stop taking the BCP and then resting for a few cycles before IVF. You can simply overlap with the agonist and proceed.

    Good luck!

    Geoff Sher
    ReplyDelete
  81. Hi Jennifer_124,

    Unless you are spotting because of a uterine lesion (polyp etc). it would not be aproblem tpo proceed with the Lupron overlap as planned.

    Geoff Sher
    ReplyDelete
  82. thank you i was really worried that it would cancell my cycle. i am to start in may. begin lupron on 16 stop bcp on 18 of this month i recentley had a hysto d&c done i do not have pollups or anything i was fine . thank you for replying so quickly so i guess my hormones are just going crazy on bcp and it is normal. ? will the lupron stop the spotting?
    ReplyDelete
  83. I am starting my first IVF cycle after 5 failed iui's (one ectopic). I received my schedule of when to take my meds and the first day on the schedule was today and said active bcp. Then starting my doxycycline on the 13th. I have my mock transfer on the 14th and also to start my lupron. I didn't notice that in the upper right hand corner of the paper (that got bent back) I didn't see that she had written lmp-bcp start!!! So I should have started my pills over a week ago!! How is this going to effect my cycle and the ivf?? I'm really nervous because we are trying to do this before my husband deploys in July.
    ReplyDelete
  84. It might be OK but you might experience some bleeding intermittently (this should not be dangerous). Either way I suggest you discuss this with your RE.

    Geoff Sher
    ReplyDelete
  85. Brief history - my husband and I are using IVF so we can use PGD (both carriers of CF). Neither of us have ever been diagnosed for fertility issues. I did my first IVF cycle two years ago (I was 34) soon after going off BC (Seasonique...keep in mind I don't WANT to get pregnant). My first cycle was cancelled, because I was not responding well to stimulation. The doctor who cancelled the cycle said it was likely due to the suppression from Seasonique but my doctor doubted him. She believed it was low ovarian reserve. Anyway, I did another cycle two months later on a stronger protocol (BC for 21 days, nothing for 3 days, 2 days lupron, 12 days of 600 UI follistim, ovidrel shot). I had 8 good size visible follicles and 6-7 smaller ones. They retrieved 12 eggs, implanted 3 embs, got pregnant with three embs, lost two due to chromosomal abnormalities, and delivered one healthy baby. Just recently, we went through a new fresh cycle (I'm 36 now). I have since been on Loestrin24, not Seasonique. At rest I had 5-6 antral follicles on each ovary. After doing BC and doing another US, I only had 3 antral follicles total. The doctor used the same protocol. In this cycle I was fully stimulated by day 10. 9 large follicles 6-7 small ones. She decided to let me go to day 11. At the retrieval, they only got 3 eggs. She again said I likely have a low ovarian reserve (I have done all of the tests, btw, and they have been normal...although I know they aren't always very accurate). I amazingly got pregnant (with a chromosomally healthy embryo), but had a very low progesterone level at the beginning and miscarried in a week. We're going to try again, but I want to know - what should we do differently this time? Thank you!
    ReplyDelete
  86. Also, I should have clarified - I had 15 eggs retrieved (12 fertilized) in first IVF. I had 3 eggs retrieved (3 fertilized) in the most recent IVF.

    Thanks again for your help!
    ReplyDelete
  87. This is more than likely just a result of diminishing ovarian reserve, rather than a protocol issue.

    Read my blog of Nov, 22nd 2010 on "An Individualized approach to Ovarian Stimulation for IVF".

    Geoff Sher
    ReplyDelete
  88. Hi Dr Sher

    I was due to start an IVF cycle this month and was put on the BCP for 10 days to fit around holiday plans. Agonists wasn't mentionned. I stopped the pill and started a new cycle 4 days later. On day 2 I went in for a hormone check and my FSH was 19.5! It has never been above 14 before. Could this be anything to do with the BCP?
    My cycle was cancelled and I have been advised next month to take the BCP for 14 days (will be on holiday when i get my period) and then come in again on day 2 for another blood test. Depending on my FSH, we may or may not proceed.
    If I do take Lupron/Buserelin for the last 5 days of being on BCP as you suggest, will that affect my FSH level on day 2?
    Many thanks
    Coralie
    ReplyDelete
  89. Hi Dr. Sher,

    I had a cancelled IVF cycle on April of this year due to poor response to stimulation . That time I took bcp for two months and then given lupron shot 10 days before starting stimulation. During stimulation I was given follistim and repronex (initiually 150 and 75 IU respectively for first 3 days, then both increased to 300 IU for last 8 days before cancelling cycle).

    Now I am waiting to start my next IVF cycle. My day 3 estradiol was 59.5, FSH was 2.9 on June 15, 2011. Dr wanted me to start Birth Control Pills (Loestrin) on same day. Dr. was planning to start stim on July. On July 3, I took my last pill and then on July 6, I had morning US and ES, FSH test. ES was found 80 and FSH was 6. My dr. tested again next day to see if it goes down but ES went up to 100. So she did not start my cycle due to high level of ES and wanted me to start taking pills again for three weeks from July 9. Now my question is whether taking BCP actually helping me to get the desired day 3 ES level or making it worse?
    ReplyDelete
  90. Hi,

    I started BCP 1.5 months ago and stayed on it with no break to delay my period. My Dr. then had me start on Lupron and continue with the BCP. On the 6th day I stopped the BCP, but continued the Lupron. I'm suppose to start Repronex on the 7th day. My question is it's the 6th day and I haven't started my period yet, other then a little spotting and very mild cramps yesterday, should I be concerned? Will I still be able to start the Repronex tomorrow? Any help would be greatly appreciated.
    ReplyDelete
  91. Thanks for your question. Dr. Sher is currently out of the country, so he may not be able to respond promptly to every inquiry. His access is limited until 8/22/11. He should respond upon his return, but your question is time sensitive, so he may not see it prior to when you need the information.

    Thanks,

    Admin
    ReplyDelete
  92. I personally rarely (if ever) start the stimulation coming directly off a BCP without overlapping with an agonist such as Lupron and without a menstrual period. The article above explains why!

    Geoff Sher
    ReplyDelete
  93. Hi, I'm a little confused about the agonist vs antagonist and seem to read conflicting things. If I have naturally high E2 levels (450 on baseline) and struggling to bring down with lupron why won't me RE recommend using the antagonist approach? Wouldn't using the antaognist mean my E2 levels could remain high and all cycles could proceed? Instead they recommend I go on long protocol with BCP for a month before lupron begins?

    Please could you explain that to me? thanks in advance...
    ReplyDelete
  94. Hi Dr. Sher,

    I am 44.5. I recently did one round of mini ivf. i had a really good response for my age I hear. I had 10 eggs. One shell broke and one was immature. So we ended up with 5 frozen embryos. I plan on doing two more cycles and banking as many embryos as we can, then doing pgd. I heard about a new technique that is supposed to be more accurate than pgd it's cgs. How do you feel this compares.
    Also, I was on BCP for a week then clomid for 11 days and follistim and then ovidril.
    This cycle I started I took BCP for 14 days and then started right out on 150 of Follistim for four days. Will my body respond with less eggs the more cycles you do or does it just depend.
    If I use up all my eggs will I go into menopause?
    ReplyDelete
  95. Hi Dr Sher, Can I skip BCP before a frozen embryo cycle if I start Lupron a week before period? Thank you for your response!
    ReplyDelete
  96. Hello Dr Sher, I have take 21 days of Marvelon and have never been on borth control pills, I was told to start the Pill right away and Lupron injections on Sept 3rd. I came off the pill Sept 9th and I have still not had a period. I am concerned this will delay my retrieval as I have a gestational carrier Please advise what can be done.
    ReplyDelete
  97. It is taking long for the period to arrive. You could have a cyst that might require aspiration. I suggest that you immediately go in and see your RE for an ultrasound assessment and blood estradiol measurement.

    GS
    ReplyDelete
  98. You stated I can do no BCP before a frozen cycle and my doctor agreed. I am coming off a failed IVF (first time) in august. His original plan was to wait for a period, which I did. The time frame would have been august 30th, therefore, ovulation should be middle of September....approximately 15th, so starting Lupron about the 22nd would be about correct. However, I have been doing ovulation tests daily and it appears that the strongest line was the 20th. I talked my doctor into skipping BCP so we can do a frozen cycle next month based upon my very regular cycles. I am usually within a day or two at the most for predictable ovulation and period.
    My home testing has me just off of ovulation so I feel the IVF cycle could have screwed up my very regular cycle. They will test levels tomorrow to be sure I'm done ovulating before I start Lupron. Will the irregularity of my cycle screw up doing IVF next month since I'm not using BCP ? Or is it just fine to start Lupron as early as a couple days after ovulation? Or do you suggest to retest next week and start Lupron then? I'm just concerned that the predictability is now lost and I'll have to go on BCP for a month and not be able to do a cycle until November. Is that what you'd suggest in this scenario or is it still ok for October with my ovulation being off?
    ReplyDelete
  99. In my opinion it is best to wait for about 7 days post-ovulation to start the Lupron. If you do so, all should be fine.

    Good luck!

    Geoff Sher
    ReplyDelete
  100. Dear Dr Sher, regarding your answer to denasheren on the 23 July 2009, you mentioned 37.5U luveris. Do you mean 37.5 IU instead of U? Why is 75IU not recommended for your protocol? Thanks?
    ReplyDelete
  101. Dear Dr Sher, i am curious. Why do you give onlty half dose of ganirelix in your protocol? do you do that throughout the stim cycle without upping the dose at all? could you explain why? is that enough to prevent premature release of eggs? Thanks.
    ReplyDelete
  102. Dr. Sher, I have just begun what is my first ( & hopefully only) IVF cycle. I'm 39yrs old, & my New Hubbie of 9 months is 31yrs. old. I had a tubal ligation 14yrs ago after delivering my son, & my hubbie wants to conceive. I was put on BCP from Sept 9, until Oct. 15, I also have taken ALL TEN Letrozole tabs 2.5mg over the weekend 10/22....my question is: was i on BCP too long prior to starting my mini stim protocol? Follistim 225UI is to be started 10/26 after my first U/S on tomorrow 10/25.
    ReplyDelete
  103. This is not my preferred way of stimulating. I do not use Femara for IVF at all. I am also not partial to starting Clomid or Femara coming directly off a BCP because the BCP suppresses recruitment.

    I could be off mark here and I hope that I am.

    Good luck!

    Geoff Sher
    ReplyDelete
  104. Yes...throughout. You do not need >that because if a small amount of LH breaks through it will not matter.

    Geoff Sher
    ReplyDelete
  105. Thank you Dr Sher, is with becos lupron was already used before stim, that is why you give only 125mcg ganirelix? Or it does not matter whether lupron has been used or not? Thanks.
    ReplyDelete
  106. It applies to all stims, regardless of whether agonist and/or antagonist is used.

    Please go to the blog on this site that I posted on November 22nd, 2010, titled "An Individualized Approach to Ovarian Stimulation for IVF".

    Geoff Sher
    ReplyDelete
  107. Thank you Dr Sher! Always can rely on you to give us invaluable knowledge.
    ReplyDelete
  108. Hi,

    I am 30 years old and going for Natutal IVF because of tubes tied. Doctor asked me to use BCP from 17th day for 13 days . Could u please tell me why he prescribed and any issues with that?
    ( when my follicle size was 18mm and Estrogen 157 on 15th day morning he was planning for egg retrieval on 16th day morning but ovulation occured- I did not use any drugs)
    ReplyDelete
  109. Personally I would not suggest natural cycle IVF. The success rate is about 10% per cycle (i.e. 4-5 times lower than with stimulated cycles). I would suggest "micro-IVF" (see elsewhere on this site). Also, I do not think it is a good idea doing a natural IVF cycle coming off a BCP (see the article I wrote on "Use of the BCP in IVF", elsewhere on this site.

    Good luck!

    Geoff Sher
    ReplyDelete
  110. Hi,

    I am 31 years old and have had several failed attempts at IUI. My doctor has suggested IVF for my next attempt. I was put on BCP for 16 days on the 4 day off BCP my FSH was at 28...my FS suggested going back to BCP and trying a later cycle due to the significant costs associated. After much consideration we agreed to double our original dosage of Menopur/Bravelle to 300 mg to see the response. My estrogen was at 24 the 4th day off BCP but after 3 nights of stim it was at 208 and my ultrasound showed 3-5 follicles measuring around 3-9mm. On my 6th night of stim (same 300mg dosage) Ganarelix has been added. In your opinion is your missed step of say Lupron between BCP and stimulants likely to cause a failed cycle? What positive factors should we look for? On the 4 day off BCP (the night before I began stimulants) I started a very light period but only that day. This is all very new and confusing and my only fertility issues have been a low amh result and this high fsh on the 4th day off of BCP. Thanks so much for any insight you can offer...
    ReplyDelete
  111. I respectfully do not agree with the protocol used, particularly in a women such as you who clearly has diminished ovarian reserve (DOR). Might I recommend that you go to the home page on this very site. There you will find a "search bar" in the upper right hand column. Type in “ An Individualized Approach to Ovarian stimulation for IVF" and click on the bar. It will take you to this article which I posted on November 22nd, 2010.

    When you have read the article (and any others that might interest you), consider calling 800-780-7437 or 702-699-7437 to set up a telephone consultation (which is free for those living in the U.S.A or Canada) with me so we might discuss your case in detail.

    Geoff Sher
    ReplyDelete
  112. Hi,

    I am 30 years old and have started my first IVF after 2 failed IUIs.
    I was put on BCP for 18 days on the day 2, and Lupron on the day 14. Now I am day 23, still taking Lupron and having light bleeding the last 2-3 days which does not seem to be a regular menstruation. Is this something I should be worried about? When should I expect to get my normal period?
    ReplyDelete
  113. Our ivf attempt failed :( we were on BCP then went straight to stims. We produced 3 mature eggs and 2 fertilized. We transferred both on day 3(8 cell, no fragment, 7 cell <20% fragment). 9 days later we had an HCG level of 8 but 5 days after that it had dropped to 7. Chemical pregnancy. In your opinion is it ok for us to start BCP (THIS CYCLE) then overlap w Lupron this time before stims or is it too soon? Also for young women (31) with diminished ovarian reserve is 300 iu of Menopur and 300iu Bravelle too high of a dosage?
    ReplyDelete
  114. It is in my opinion a good ides tom rest for one (1) full cycle before going back into cycle again.

    Geoff Sher
    ReplyDelete
  115. Thank you. What is your opinion on the dosage of stimulants for a 31 y with diminished ovarian reserve? We really don't want to wait...what do we risk?
    ReplyDelete
  116. I wish I could comment, but this question is too general. I would need much m ore information. Might I recommend that you go to the home page on this site, find a "search bar" in the upper right hand column and type in the following subjects into the bar and it will take you to all the relevant articles I posted there.

    1. "An Individualized Approach to Ovarian stimulation" Posted on November 22nd, 2010
    2. “Agonist/Antagonist Conversion Protocol”

    When you have read these (and any others that might interest you) please consider calling 800-780-7437 or 702-699-7437 to set up a telephone consultation (which is free for those living in the U.S.A or Canada) with me so we might discuss your case in detail.

    Geoff Sher
    ReplyDelete
  117. What is your reasoning for not using Femara in an IVF cycle? I had a failed IVF stimulation cycle (BCP for 14days -> 2Bravelle/2menopur ->2bravelle/1menopur-> ganerellix/menopur. My E2 started out very high (16 mature follicles after a few days of stim) and then my E2 dropped to 350 prior to retrieval. My RE wants to switch to a lower dose of meds and use Femara. I had success (but no pregnancy) with the femara/bravelle protocol for a timed intercourse cycle. Please let me know your thoughts.
    ReplyDelete
  118. Please don’t get me wrong. Pregnancies do occur when IVF is done with Femara/clomiphene. However, it is in my opinion not the best since clomiphene and Femara cause excessive release of large amounts of pituitary LH which in turn increase ovarian testosterone production. In young women with normal ovarian reserve this poses less of a problem but when it comes to older women and those with diminished ovarian reserve it can adversely affect egg development and embryo quality. I personally think the deleterious effect is only a matter of degree, so I have not and do not prescribe either clomiphene of Femara to my IVF patients.

    Geoff Sher

    P.S. See the article entitled "An Individualized Approach to Ovarian Stimulation for IVF" posted on November 24th, 2010, on this very site.
    ReplyDelete
  119. Hi, after taking norethisterone for one month and then stopping, I took Clomid 100 mg but responded very slowly to it and ovulated later than usual (judging from scans). Is it possible that the norethisterone delayed my ovulation?
    ReplyDelete
  120. I am following this protocol and i have made a mistake with the quantity of buserelin overlapping with the bcp :(
    I have taken 0.05ml for 6 days instead if 0.5ml - i feel so stupid. I am visiting my clinic tomorrow but im sure it the cycle will now be cancelled. I stopped bcp on thurs and AF is due today
    ReplyDelete
  121. This could present a problem!

    Good luck.

    Geoff Sher
    ReplyDelete
  122. There sometimes happens when you start clomiphene after hormonal suppression of ovulation.

    It does not necessarily recur.

    Geoff Sher.
    ReplyDelete
  123. My Dr was happy with my blood results and is happy that I have down regulated, he reckons the cycle should proceed as planned
    ReplyDelete
  124. Then you need to follow his/her recommendations!

    Good luck!

    Geoff Sher
    ReplyDelete
  125. Dear Dr.Sher,
    We are planning for the 4th IVF cycle in Feb 2012. I am 30 year old with PCOS and i am not overweight.
    1st cycle was cancelled on day5 of stimulation due to hyperstimulation (was on Antagonist protocol). My e2 level was 8000.
    The 2nd cycle again Antagonist protocol was cancelled on day6 due to low response, my e2 level dropped from 700 to 60 after they reduced the dose.
    The 3rd cycle-again Antagonist protocol but started the precycle with BCP, went for ER and got 22 eggs but only 6 fertilized but none made to transfer.
    This cycle i am on BCP for 3 weeks then they want me to stop BCP and start lypron for 2 weeks and then start stimulation 75 gonal F and 75 Menupor. My concern is do we need to overlap BCP with lupron. Is taking lupron for 2 weeks prior stimulation is too long..will it supress my ovaries? Can you please suggest me on this protocol.
    ReplyDelete
  126. I cannot speak for the choices made by your RE. However, I do not use these protocols on PCOS women. The last protocol is what we call a "Lupron-Stop" protocol. In my opinion you need a long pituitary down-regulation protocol (and yes the Lupron is overlapped with the BCP with this approach). Also the Lupron is continued throughout the stimulation (Read the articles listed below). also, since PCOS women are indeed at risk of ovarian hyperstimulation, the protocol must be administered in preparation for "prolonged coasting" (see below).

    Might I recommend that you go to the home page on this site, find a "search bar" in the upper right hand column and type in the following subjects into the bar and it will take you to all the relevant articles I posted there.

    1. "An Individualized Approach to Ovarian stimulation" Posted on November 22nd, 2010
    2. “Agonist/Antagonist Conversion Protocol”
    3. "PCOS"
    4. “IVF success: Factors that influence outcome”
    5. “Ovarian Hyperstimulation Syndrome"
    6. " Prolonged coasting"

    When you have read these (and any others that might interest you) please consider calling 800-780-7437 or 702-699-7437 to set up a telephone consultation (which is free for those living in the U.S.A or Canada) with me so we might discuss your case in detail.

    Geoff Sher
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  127. My cycle failed miserably. No follicles at all , no response to the stims. Nothing
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  128. Sorry to hear this.

    If you wish to discuss, call and set up a consultation with me (800-780-7437).

    Geoff Sher
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  129. I just did my first shot of depot lupron on 1/27/2012.Will be doing 3 months of lupron. I will be doing a medicated FET after that.I met up with my RE and he says I do not need to wait for a period and just go from depot lupron to taking estrogen to build up my lining for FET. Do you think this is good idea? He does not think it is necessary to do birth control and lupron 10unit and 5 units. What are the pros and cons of waiting for a period and not waiting for a period before FET?
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  130. I do not prescribe Depot Lupron, but indeed, your RE is correct when this long acting form of Lupron is used.

    Geoff Sher
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  131. hi there. i have recently been told i have a mild pcos, and since stopping yasmin (which completely masked these symptoms) 2 years ago, when ttc, unsuccessfully i have developed acne and hairloss from the hairline. i have been referred for ICSI in 3-4 months time, and as the hairloss is increasingly worsening i wanted to ask you if it would be possible to start taking yasmin again in these months preceeding the treatment, as we have been told it is impossible for us to conceive naturally anyway. i am gradually losing self confidence, but if it will compromise my treatment, obviously i will not go back on the bcp as that is my priority. thanks so much for taking the time to read this.
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  132. I do not think that Yasmin will do harm but talk to your own RE first.

    Geoff Sher
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  133. thanks a lot for your reply
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